Is this the right way to resist Occupation ?
هل هده هي الطريقة الصحيحة لمقاومة الاحتلال ؟؟
..............
Gaza last month :a group of armed Palestinian women protesting
against the Israeli invasion of Lebanon !!
Members of Hamas carrying a ' Qassam' hand-made rocket in Gaza
A Palestinian women protesting against the Israeli invasion of
Lebanon !!
Armed Palestinian men in a 'press conference' !!
....
This is NEVER the right way to resist occupation. The above pictures were all taken in Gaza the last few months, all showing militants and even women who are carrying guns and marching in the streets.
No rational person can accept such scenes. The people who are running such 'activities' are surely out of their minds. They will not only make the world 'laugh' at us, but also help Israel in presenting Palestinians to the world as a 'bunch of terrorists' who surely ' have to work hard before they deserve a state'.
What makes me go crazy is how the arab newspapers in the arab countries are looking at it. They look at such shots ( also there are many videotapes with even worse content ) and 'praise' the 'armed resistance' in Palestine !! They got it all wrong : and whenever they hear that the 'resistance' has fired a rocket or attacked an Israeli military post they would blindly start DREAMING : the armed resistance is 'teaching the occupation lessons' or ' look at those brave men who are fighting with the least preparations'.
As a Palestinian, I believe that this would cause us DIRECT harm. Not only will such pictures be used against us in the Israeli PR campaign against all the Palestinians , but it will make us look like terrorists infront of the whole world. At the best estimations : such maddness and poor leadership and management will give the impression that we are still 'immature' and ' naieve' and 'nonprofessional'.
Resisting the occupation is NOT done in this way. Maybe this can give results if we were in year 1906 , but not now ( or then ).
What do you think the World will think when such pictures and scenes are broadcasted on TVs all over the world ? How will this present us to the world ??
Very negatively I believe.
posted by Osaid Rasheed @ 4:43 PM
70 comments
70 Comments:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
How quickly the zionists forget the 'terrorist' methods they used against the British prior to the establishment of Israel.
Palestine is ALSO fighting for their independance at the moment...
None of that is the correct way to peace. Why not concern yourselves with palestine? Why not love your family, prosper in business, worship your God? Must your minds always be clouded with revenge. Do you honestly believe Israel will keep reacting to violence if the arabs stop enacting it?
Taken Tse... on this point you are correct.
why????why da world is qruel????where's other islamic countries????are we just sit n look for what israel have done to palestine????are we the coward one????why we wont stand for islam???where is rasulullah spirit of jihad?????stand united for islam n israel n the others will go down
Job :
Israel should stop land confiscations, shelling, killing civilians and building more settlements. Dont you think that is necessary too ?
Everyone should stop killing. Israel gave back much land last year to no avail. The arabs only want more. Israel is trying to wall itself up to keep from getting attacked, and thus leave the arabs alone, yet the arabs don't want that as well. Tell me, who is the agressor?
Hello JOB :
Check this Reliable link to see the origins of the problem and to check WHO is the agressor.
We want OUR land back. Israel is NOT giving any land, it is occupying our land.
This is simple.
good day
Email and post this news story, expose the cyber "Israel" supporters for who they are
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2289232,00.html
Israel backed by army of cyber-soldiers
From Yonit Farago in Jerusalem
WHILE Israel fights Hezbollah with tanks and aircraft, its supporters are campaigning on the internet.
Israel’s Government has thrown its weight behind efforts by supporters to counter what it believes to be negative bias and a tide of pro-Arab propaganda. The Foreign Ministry has ordered trainee diplomats to track websites and chatrooms so that networks of US and European groups with hundreds of thousands of Jewish activists can place supportive messages.
In the past week nearly 5,000 members of the World Union of Jewish Students (WUJS) have downloaded special “megaphone” software that alerts them to anti-Israeli chatrooms or internet polls to enable them to post contrary viewpoints. A student team in Jerusalem combs the web in a host of different languages to flag the sites so that those who have signed up can influence an opinion survey or the course of a debate.
Jonny Cline, of the international student group, said that Jewish students and youth groups with their understanding of the web environment were ideally placed to present another side to the debate.
“We’re saying to these people that if Israel is being bashed, don’t ignore it, change it,” Mr Cline said. “A poll like CNN’s takes just a few seconds to vote in, but if thousands take part the outcome will be changed. What’s vital is that the international face of the conflict is balanced.”
Doron Barkat, 29, in Jerusalem, spends long nights trawling the web to try to swing the debate Israel’s way. “When I see internet polls for or against Israel I send out a mailing list to vote for Israel,” he said. “It can be that after 15 minutes there will be 400 votes for Israel.
“It’s very satisfying. There are also forums where Lebanese and Israelis talk.”
Israel’s Foreign Ministry must avoid direct involvement with the campaign but is in contact with international Jewish and evangelical Christian groups, distributing internet information packs.
Amir Gissin, the Israeli Foreign Ministry’s public relations director, said: “The internet’s become a leading tool for news, shaping the world view of millions. Our problem is the foreign media shows Lebanese suffering, but not Israeli. We’re bypassing that filter by distributing pictures showing how northern Israelis suffer from Katyusha rocket attacks.”
The British controlled land was to be split into two countries. This was not good enough for the arabs. They chose to war with Israel and lost even more land. If you go to war, you must know the consequences. When one loses, they can't surrender then say give me my land, and stuff back. This is lesson of history. Why not deal with the land you have, live a peaceful life, build a family, prosper in business, and worship your God in peace. For Israel is not going anywhere. They gave Palestine more land and it got them nowhere. Give them a foot, and they want a yard.
Job :
/..If you go to war, you must know the consequences. When one loses, they can't surrender then say give me my land, and stuff back../
You call this a LOGIC or are you tying to fool us here ??
The arabs lost the land and they are fighting to get it BACK.
Same logic !!
See, there is where logic escapes from the arabs. Why do you need it back? The arabs lost the land. You don't see other civilizations terrorizing the victors of past wars for the land they rightfully won. Why not strive for a happy life? Instead of only causing grief upon yourself?
DP - That's interesting, since the Arabs in Israel don't seem to be drinking from other fountains either. In fact they are even allowed to shop in the same stores, and work in the same jobs. I know I know the Galilee is not really part of Israel but still...
Also I am not sure how calling someone an Idiot helps in any way...
Sorry about the name calling... it was uncalled for...
But, the fact remains that you have no idea what you are talking about, neither does the blogger that states that "I know I know the Galilee is not really part of Israel but still... "
The Galilee IS a part of Israel and the Palestinians that live there do not have the same government services as the Jews in most of the rest of Israel.
Just one example is the town of Sachnin.... where a soccer team was created... where that soccer team two years ago won the Israeli championship... where in the town itelf no money was alloted by the government to build themselves a stadium.
It was eventually built by a grant by the government of a neighbouring Arab country and the rest with a gift from a Russian'Jewish Billionare who lives in Jerusalem... Not a cent from the government.
That's the Galalee!
Calm down friends. :)
IM k :
The difference is not just 'naming'. The difference and the problem is what the zionist Israeli governments have been doing is the occupied PAlestinian land ( west bank, or let me say : judea and Samaria ).
The problem is NOT with naming, its NOT with the jewish people. It is with these zionists who are doing whatever they can to deny us our right to exist and our basic right of self determintion.
I dont know where do you live, but it looks like you are unaware of the true sitution in here. The constant violation of human rights is on going. The israeli zionist governments are doing whatever they can to change the truth and tell more and more lies to the world.
Regarding the 'fence' , 'wall' , 'appartheid wall', 'barrier' or 'new borders' ....choose whatever naming you like : it is depriving palestinians not only from basic human needs and righst : like going freely to their homes, schools, hospitals and work..but it also puts new political and demogrphic facts that make it IMPOSSIBLE for palestinians to establish their own independence and have their basic right of self determination.
I am a supporter of establishing a 2 nations with 2 neighbouring states.. without violence and incitements, without IDF and without resistance groups. BUT what your government is doing is leading us to WAR.
The zionist government thinks itself strong enough to impose its will on everyone..but this will surely give them peace. TIME is NOT at their side.
Tell me : where do you live ? and from where do you get your info about palestine/Israel ??
big fate loser, go bad to 1200s where you belong
Osaid: ~~~~~I am a supporter of establishing a 2 nations with 2 neighbouring states.. without violence and incitements, without IDF and without resistance groups. BUT what your government is doing is leading us to WAR.~~~~~
=========
Osaid, the Israeli's think the other way around. What the "resistance groups" are doing is leading to war - actually: is keeping us in war...
Tse.
Israel and America are known for there Terror and there Deception it is what there good at. They piont and blame on everyone else when there the ones doing the terror. It is FACT!! 9/11 for example a large % of the citizens of the U.S know that 9/11 was done and commited by America with the help of Israel. The london bombing is another example..Folks people are being decieved and lied to..And these 2 countries are wolves in sheeps clothing...
Hajar..
Hello and welcome to my blog.
I thought that Osama bin Laden and Al-Qaeda were those who did it... Isnt that true ?
Dp - There is this thing called Sarcasm - Look it up..
As for the Galil - I think I know a little more about Sachnin than you do, being that I live right near it, including the Soccer field Story - which prove absolutely nothing - there a lot of things that the Israeli govt. doesnt do for it's people Jews and Arabs a like (Go into Bituach Leumi for Example)...
I am not saying that there are no issues that have to be solved - there are many - But that does NOT make Israel an Apartheid in ANY Way. Although there are some people that seem to think that if they use the word on Israel enough times somehow makes it true - sorry but it doesn't.. Once again there are many problem that the Israeli society has to resolve - Including issues about discrimination towards the Israeli Arabs - But that does not Equal Apartheid!!!
Dream on O Y... that's part of the Israeli Dream...
Call the wall a fence, call it a barrier, call it what you want... it separates people.. that is APARTHEID!
DP - anything that separates people is an apartheid?? At least that's what I understand from your last comment...
Using your example France must be an apartheid - after all they built the Maginot line. I think you have to re think your definitions they are a little weak.
Also can you show me the Wall around Sachnin?? I can't see it from where I am looking.
To perpetuate the myth, part of your Israeli Dream, the Palestinians that live in Sachnin are referred to as Israel Arabs... so there is not a wall... but there are hundreds of police in attendance at football games held there to separate the racist Betar fans from the people.
No wall necessary when you have police on the scene.
Beitar gets have hundreds of police going every game, it's the reputation they got. The underdog - actually just like the arabs in many ways.
Tse.
It's much worse Tse when the Betar fans start chanting "Death to Arabs' if there actually are Arabs present.
You know what??? Maybe we do need a wall to separate those animals (Betar fans) from the rest of civilisation.
I did not mean to offend you in any way Tse... I have always found you to be a very decent person on this blog.
My comment about the 'animals' and the wall was to illustrate how ridiculous the entire concept of the wall is.
And yes, I have heard Arabs singing 'death to Jews' as well... i find that just as revolting.
I know who makes up Betars core of fans, I have seen them on busses, in malls, they walk around in 'gangs' like most other hoodlems. I don't think it is because of their Mizrachi background, I think it's because of their class background... many are from the poorer sections of Jerusalem and are basically uneducated, in many cases unemployed as well.
racism is not limited to any one group Tse, this is a fact. You will find in amoung European Jews, Mizrachi Jews and Palestinians.
Tolerance and education will eventually lead to its demise, that is my hope.
Again, I'm sorry if my remark offended you, it was not meant to.
Osaid:
Unrelated to anything in this thread... are you still in Hebron? This weekend is my last weekend in Palestine (for this trip, but I'll be back!), and I'm planning on visiting Hebron. It would be extra special if I could meet my favorite blogger before I leave! Let me know if you are around.
-Sarah
Tsedek,
I agree with you 100% - I think it's horrible that such a thing still exists. I think it should be fought as much as possible - on the other hand I do see bright points - walking through the University (Hebrew U)I see a lot of people of many "colors" and backgrounds (Incl. Arabs) and I am very happy to see it. It does give hope that we are moving in the right direction - even if it is slower than we would like it to be.
Having said all this - DP - how does any of that relate to an Apartheid??
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Is there a wall?
Are Israelis on one side and Palestinians on the other side?
Am I imagining this?
If I'm not, then there is a separation of two people by a physical boundry in the same country...
THIS IS APARTHEID!
Call it whatever you want to O Y... that too is part of your Israeli Draem.
If death cannot stop, then a wall is needed. Along with peace.
DP -
"then there is a separation of two people by a physical boundary in the same country..."
wait let me get this strait?? Same country?? I thought the whole Idea is to have 2 SEPARATE countries!! Isn't that what you want? If that's the case where is the Apartheid here??
Once again - Separating people does not create Apartheid - When you come into JFK airport(for example) and go through Passport Control there are 2 lines - one for American Passports and one for non Us Passports - is this Apartheid?? after all 2 people being separated by a physical boundary.
S pet :
hello
Yes. I am in hebron now and I live in Hebron. :)
Email me at osaidr1@yahoo.com ,and lets see how can we work out a meeting.
I am welcoming it :).
Desertpeace my friend :
Calm down ! We do not want to end up attacking people, especially people like Tsedek. If tsedek and people like her are those who are blamed, then there is no hope for anything in this holy land.
IM K :
Wonderful..
You live in the states.. and you surely dont know much ( this goes on whether youy were jewish , christian or not ).
Let me tell you in brief what the REAL truth is :
Israel calls the west bank and Gaza 'disputed land' to avoid the term ' occupation'. According to the UN and international law, and also to SO MANY jewish and Israeli orgs and individuals, the Israeli presence in the West bank and GAza is OCCUPATION. It is thgus illegal.
As for the settlements :
Since the west bank is an occupiued land, or let us agree here that is it a disputed land, then it is ILLEGAL to use its land or change its characteristics in ANY form. This is the international law. Israel has been building settlements in the west bank and Gaza, ILLEGALLY. It wanted to change the demographic and political situations. ALL israeli settlements inside the west bank and Gaza are ILLEGAL>
There is a report, that I will forward it to you ( wt email ? ), which describes how Israel KNEW from its legal councelor that building settlements was ILLEGAL. But it continued it.
As for HOW the settlements and the Arabs are living :
The settlements are like military camps. NO palestinian is allowed to go in ( EXCEPT WITH PERMITS ). There is absolutely NO mixing or cultural exchange between arabs and settleres. ON the contrary : there is violence and terror.
Most settlers are Armed, and in many cases, being protected by IDF, they attack civilians and shoot and kill many of them. Without any LAW being taken into consideration.
The people ( arab) who live near settlements are suffering.
For VALIDATED and RELIABLE information about it, check the CPT>ORG site, they have been monitoring the situation in Hebron and south HEbron settlements and have written and docuymented the situation there.
At the links that I provide here on my blog : check the video taping for the wall, and you can also see what settlers are doing.
Other than the legal and political issues, settlers have been involved in terror attacks against civilian palestinians. They are, e.g. Hebron, protected by hundreds of IDF soldiers. They occupy arab houses, attack civilians and do whatever they want without any fear.
After the peace agreement with Israel, it was supposed that Israel STOPS building new settlements in the west bank and gaza and starts removing existing one. Israel never fulfilled its promises and built more settlements. This particular issue was a major reason behind the erruption of the second intifada, and complicating the whole situation.
If interested, I shall forward top you alittle more about this issue.
good day
Hey Oleh Yahshan,
Just a random question; you wrote in one of ur comments that you live near Sakhnin. Does your town/city have a bomb-shelter? Does Sakhnin have one? Would the Israeli government pay to build a shelter in Sakhnin?
Im k and all :
check this link to learn and SEE more about the separation wall
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jK44vztA3ag
Separation Wall
Im and others :
The CPT have maintained a team in al tuwwaneh ( south Hebron ) where settlers are doing the worst crimes against humanity. They are stealing land, shooting at and killing farmers and internationals, preventing farmers from reaching their homes, land. And also burning the farmer's crops.
You can check the CPT site and also check the team in Al-Tuwwaneh
dp 6:32 PM, August 02, 2006,
The Jews called ahead and warned the Brits. Do the Suicide bombers do that to the Jews? Didn't think so.
Osaid,
How did you get to be so smart?
================
A look at the future
Tactics, Strategy, Grand Strategy
The coming fall of the Syrian regime at: Syria Has a Problem. Its days are numbered. Sixty to ninety days. Possibly less.
Iran is going too. The Palestinians will be forced to take what they can get.
Osaid, MSM in Israel also portrays the crimes of the settlers. There is this program called "Ovda" (fact) with Ilana Dayan that has broadcast about it a few times. I don't understand why Israel let this happen. I truely don't. There's not much soldiers can do. It probably is IDF policy. I remember vaguely that the IDF gave the explanation to call those areas "no man's land" (not Israeli not Palestinian?) but if they can come to protect settlers they must be able to protect landowners as well, grrrrr!!!!
It is legally "disputed" land. Humanely and logically it is not, but armistice lines are just that internationally until a peaceful solution has settled the problem.
Abhorrent that Israel built these settlements while negotiating peace. But still I don't understand why those settlements couldn't be dismantled by peaceful negotiations? I do understand anger at looking at yet another piece of land being confiscated while you should be doing right the opposite thing (leave land) - but surely everybody must know that violence never brings the solution? (If rather: then it is making things much worse).
With that wall it is the same thing. My heart breaks looking at all the hardship Palestinians in the West-Bank are being put through and the huge amount of unfairness. I've seen it with me own eyes how it separates families (again). It's inhumane. No good words in my vocubalery for it. BUT!!! why then did the PA give reason for its construction? Why didn't it understand that with the terrorattacks at the beginning of this millenium things would get worse. So, here I'm coming back to my point: why couldn't everything be solved in a peaceful manner i/o to call for an intifada (also because I feel that the second intifada has kidnapped the justification of the first, which was true opposition - and has taken it to a completely different ballgame that seem not to care anymore about the Palestinians but much more about the ideologies of the extremists amongst them).
No?
Take care, Osaid - stay safe,
Tse.
Tsedek:
you seem to know werll what you are talking about. looks like you SAW with your eyes the real situation.
It is right: there is much UNFAIRNESS and injustice. The IDF is NOT doing a good job in its interventions between Palestinians and settlers. You probably know more stories that I do about this issue.
Why Israel continued building settlements while going on with the peace process ?? Maybe you can tell me why, coz I have no explanation to it other than arrogance and STUPIDITY.
IM K:
You asked somequestions,and I tried to give you some answers. Tsedek did also put VALUABLE contributions. If you truely want to hjear the right answer then you are welcome, if you are here to defend the policies ofthe UGLY israeli governments then find yourself another blog,or write at your own blog !
The last comment you added was provocative. This in NOT the attitude of someone who wants to learn or know more about a situation.
I am sure you are smart enough to be able to know what is right and what is wrong, what is humane and wts not,wt is legal,ethical and whats not. If you want to flex your muscles in the arts of arguments, I amnot the man for it.
HAve you seen the link about the wall ? What do you think about it ??
What do you think about buildingsettlements in the west bank ?
And what do you say about the settl;ers impunity and 'protection' being provided to themby the 'moral'!! IDF ?
In fact, the settlers attitudes and actions were provocative to many IDF soldiers and many Israelis. If israel is to be labeled an appartheid state,then it is because of the presence ofsettlers and the consequences on local paleestinians.
I dont think Israel is an appartheid state. Yet the mistakes and injustice and violations to human rights is not putting it in a less worse position infront of all the world.
I do not put myself as a BLING defender of something. I try to be rationaland right. This is when talking to you,this is for ME, coz I dont want to fool myself,or be fooled by others.
What are you ?
Osaid, congratulations! I think this is the first blog I have seen anywhere people from both sides actually have discussions rather than just throwing rhetoric and slogans back and forth at each other. Hopefully some good can come of some honest communication between both sides.
IMHO if there is ever going to be a chance at peace both sides need to stop comparing past attacks against each other. Both sides have a long laundry list of complaints and worse, getting the blood boiling and reverting back to animals doesn’t help anyone.
It would seem to me if the Arab league would recognize Israel’s right to exist it would disarm the religious zealots on both sides.
im y4kki:
http://www.israel-palestina.info/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=72
[[["Over the past year there have been dozens of sabotage incidents of Palestinian-owned olive groves by settlers. As recently as last month more than 1,000 olive trees have been cut down on six different occasions. === "There's a pervasive feeling of lawlessness," Mazuz said, adding, "This phenomenon is part of a wider phenomenon of a lack of law enforcement against Israelis in the territories.]]]
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=731503&contrassID=1&subContrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=0
[[[The justices also sharply criticized the lack of law enforcement toward settlers in the Palestinian territories.
"The violations of the law against Palestinian farmers are carried out by a small and extremist group of Israelis, whose acts tarnish the names all of the Israeli settlers in Judea and Samaria," Beinisch wrote.]]]
And so on... Believe you me... they're one bunch of looney fanatical fundi's.
Sometimes there is just one caravan on top of a hill and when the people wanna come to work their land they're being shot at by that one settler controlling the whole area.
Sometimes kibbutz people come to their help because we're getting really mad at those hilltop settlers, but obviously lands have to be worked every day and those are just a drop in the sea.
====================
Osaid, could you please also answer to the question I asked in my previous postin? I don't wanna push, but I'm real curios as to what the answer might be.
Tyia,
Tse.
Osaid Rasheed doesn't like arms resisting invasion? So the best way to oppose occupation and genocide policies would be? May be waiting until all palestinians are finally either dead or expelled from their ancient lands? I guess there would be no need any more for ressisting occupation - and for ressisting anything, for that part...
Check Statute of Rome, you will find Israel's govt. and army make the best to meet the definition of the international crime of genocide. Check international measures to block this crime, you will find no one in the international community save brave President Hugo Chavez of Venezuela to openly denounce the sickening aggresion of Israel.
So what's left, against the 4th. most powerfull army of the world? Prayers to the lord? No, personal view, there's only ressistance and armed it must be, if you want to stand up for the size of Israel's murderous stance.
I don't guess they teach the history of Mandela, Gandhi, and Martin Luther King in Palestine. It's a shame.
Tsedek :
Thanks for the reply and the wonderful links..:)
That was really strong !
What last question you wanted me to answer ? remind me plz
:)
I am checking your blog to see now..
IM Y :
So ?? what do you say now ??
JHR :
Thanks and welcome to our discussions and to this blog :)
Sintrabas :
hello and welcome to my blog..
Let me ask you first : where are you from ? And what are your views of the possible solutions to this conflict : war and attacks ? killing civilians at buses and firing rockets at villages ? Does this seem right to you ??
Osaid please look at my posting here of August 9 at 2:44 - and please read from:
"Abhorrent that Israel built..."
In case of both subjects (settlements while negotiating peace and the wall) I asked the question.
Thank you
and have a nice day :)
Tse.
In a recent interview, General Norman Schwarzkopf was asked if he thought there was room for forgiveness toward Hizbollah
The General said,
" I believe that forgiving Hizbollah is God's function. The Israeli's job is to arrange the meeting."
Tsedek :
/With that wall it is the same thing. My heart breaks looking at all the hardship Palestinians in the West-Bank are being put through and the huge amount of unfairness. I've seen it with me own eyes how it separates families (again). It's inhumane. No good words in my vocubalery for it. BUT!!! why then did the PA give reason for its construction? Why didn't it understand that with the terrorattacks at the beginning of this millenium things would get worse.../
I couldnt undertsand your point here. Maybe you can elaborate.
Regardless of the second intifada, occupation remains the main cause of all our suffering.
Intifadas and people's uprise against oppression and injustice is NOT something that is well planned and programmed. Dont you think so ? I do not blame Palestinians for the current complication of the situation : I blame Israel.
I still believe that we can still have a very strong case ( our cause ) without haveing to go through all this stupidities. Still : this is all RANDOM and there is NO single palestinian leadership or group ( whether inside or outside palestine ) that is running the events or even affecting them. I know that Syrian and Iranian influences are competing , but the story and the core of the problem is NOT here, it is in Israeli occupation and oppression.
Tsedek :
The situation in Hebron and the whole west bank is like HELL. DO take my words.
I am trying to have a nice day..
:)
Osaid - your last point is trumped by irrefutable evidence, I am afraid. As you well know, Palestinian terrorism started long before Palestinians were invented as a weapon - back in the days when they were just Arabs. It has begun decades before Israel became an independent state, and it has never stopped. So, unless occupation can have an effect 50 years before it has started, your interesting theory is utterly and completely baseless. Sorry.
I understand both your need for such excuses and the horrible pressure of thought-clouding propaganda which produces them... but on the other hand, I know that you're a reasonable being. And I hope that like it happened with Walid Shoebat, reason will win over shame and propaganda.
In the meanwhile, I would like to point your attention to a fascinating and thought-provoking analysis:
http://www.theaugeanstables.com/2006/08/10/meditations-on-reutersgate-whats-going-on-in-the-msm
I hope that you remember my warning - that posting baseless accusations as truth is a downward spiral which will bring about more and more deranged accusations?
PS
While Palestinians continue to believe that they are not to blame, it's all the Evil Zionists' (tm) fault, there can and will be no change for the better. And your people will continue to suffer and destroy themselves and poison their own minds and kill kill kill kill kill. Only by really examining the roots of the problem can you find a solution - and I suspect that you do want a solution.
Osaid, don't take this the wrong way, but simply put: did the use of violence bear any fruit? The violence that erupted among other things because of the building of settlements while negoatiating peace.... The wall that was built because of that violence....
My point being: don't you think all Israel's harsh security measurements that happened since the outbreak of the Intifada II and from the Palestinian people are suffering so very much now, couldn't this have been solved/prevented by not supplying Israel with the "reason" for them: violence....
Would the Palestinian cause not have been much more progressed if terror attacks were never carried out? If something is disputed but humanely on "your side" (like an independent autonomous state with borders "agreed upon" like it says in res. 242) don't you think that from under the scrutinized eye of the whole of the world (as you can notice) justice would have better be served by "fighting" for your rights in a peaceful way?
I hope you take my question in the right spirit. It's none of this blame-game where I'm sick of. It's just pure curiousity in order to understand where the misunderstandings are at between Israeli's and Palestinians. Because, honestly -with the exception of a handful extremists on both sides- I think mainly everybody just wants the same....
Tse.
Becoz they're religious freaks. Think the whole of this land belongs to the jews - that's as simple as you could get it. Just as freaky as the Hamas people who think exactly the same.....
Tse.
Tzedek...
//Because, honestly -with the exception of a handful extremists on both sides- I think mainly everybody just wants the same....
//
This is absolutely contary to all existing evidence. The crowds chanting "Death to Israel" versus crowds chanting "Peace". Now is not the time for blind naivete.
Raccoon :
Whereve u been ?? Hello again !
IM :
Your discussion is taking us NOWHERE. Tsedek answered you already ...
tsedek :
the use of violence did NOT bear us fruits. STILL it was the reason why Israel got into all this peace process, unfortunately. ( I know you will argue me here ! )
the Israeli governments NEVER paid any attention to palestinians or their righst.. this is a fact.
:)
Good day
So you don't recognize the difference between the first and the second Intifada, Osaid?
Tse.
I've been around, Osaid, watching your blog descend into the the usual oblivion.
If Israel never cared for the rights of the Palestinians, you would not have had electricity, water, food, schools and universities. Moreover, there would have been no Palestinians (Rememeber what the Syrians and the Jordanians did when Palestinians tried to undermine them?).
I will, once again, stop posting - my questions are never asnwered and my points are ignored. But I'll keep watching - descent into oblivion is always fascinating to behold, yes?
Best of luck.
Raccoon :
It is good that you have been taching this blog, though I dont agree with you that the level has been 'descending'.
Raccoon :
Your points have never been ignored. I find your questions, together with Tsedek's, very interesting and challenging. I do not want to answer in a conventional and a naieve way, thats why I tend to tackle SOME aspects of your comments,without being able to go through the whole points in a 'rational way' ( at least rational for ME ).
Look at this point of yours in your last comment for example :
/ As you well know, Palestinian terrorism started long before Palestinians were invented as a weapon - back in the days when they were just Arabs. It has begun decades before Israel became an independent state, and it has never stopped. So, unless occupation can have an effect 50 years before it has started, your interesting theory is utterly and completely baseless. Sorry.../
Honestly, I dont know from where have you got such 'facts'. It is ONLY when zionists began their imigration and settlements building in 'palestine' when killing began. This is a well documented fact in the history of the world. I couldnt just answer you telling you that you are wrong, I have been searching for a reliable story where I can refute your points.
I still believe that the 'arabs' started ONLY after being threatened by the settlers who . after a short time, started viewing themselves as the 'owners' of the land they ' bought' or that the land is 'them' as written in their holy books. Our holy book says that this land is ours, Raccoon, and probably christians have rights in the land...but we all share the point that through religious rationalizations we shall not reach peace SOON !
Tsedek's point, which I am still searching for an answer for, which is about WHY DID ARABS "LEAVE" in 1948 ( was it that they chose to leave, expelled, or wt ? ) is still in my mind. I have asked this question to 2 history professors in Bethlehem and Hebron university, asn another at Blufton Univ and I am still waiting for RELIABLE answers for your points.
RAccoon : i dont know what you dont like , but I am sure that I will post more of this 'u dont like' type ! NOT because I am posting lies or 'twisted' stories, but because they simply contradict with what you have been considering as 'facts' .
SOON you will see that I will be more capable of referencing my points to RELIABLE resources, just give me SOME time.
I dont know what questions you didnt have answers for.. Is it those 2 questions that you asked my 3 times until now ? Or what ?
I am praising Tsedek's patience , and not complaining !!! hehehehe
...
put your reflections after reading this comment on a comment and let me see wt goes through ur mind now
:)
:)
Osaid, thank you for your investigative work in order to respond reliably.
I'm very curious to know what you come up with (ref. what made the arabs leave in 1948) - mostly so, becoz I've got my thoughts about that settled for quite some time now....
Take care & stay safe,
Tse.
Tsedek :
You are welcome..
I will let you soon soon after I get the info.
:)
Osaid -
When I speak of the deterioration of your blog, I refer to the comments. As I have said before, baseless accusations draw people who like this sort of thing; it is reflected in the various psychopaths that have been commenting on your blog lately, not in what you personally write.
And about my comment: you're absolutely right, Arabs began attacking Jews when the latter started living in Israel. You apparently forget that Jews settled in Israel some 4000+ years ago, though. The attackers were not Arabs per se back then since Arabs were merely a number of nomadic tribes in the Arabian Peninsula in these times, long before Islam was invented. The attackers were various people the Arabs later subjugated and usually destroyed - Philistines, Amalek, Assurians, etc. But - surprise - Islamic assaults on Jews started with the advent of Islam, according to the Koran and Sira. And these attacks have not stopped until today. Nothing is new under the sun.
So, sure, when there were more Jews in Israel there were more attacks; when there were less Jews in Israel there were less attacks. Accordingly, the Jews returning to Israel after millenia of diaspora were attacked by Arabs; but so were the Jews who have managed to never leave the land. See Hebron, for instance.
Moreover, amusingly enough, according to the Koran Israel is Jewish land. If you want, I can quote the relevant Suras for you. This is, of course, immaterial to the discussion - Israel is an ethinic Jewish homeland, and it is on this basis that we have returned home.
Additionally, the fact that you're looking to refute my point and not to ponder it is somewhat telling, is it not?
And about sources - isn't denying the Holocaust an accepted and popular subject for doctorate thesis in Bethlehem and Hebron unis, as it is in all other Arab/Islamic universities? Are these universities not hotbeds of terrorism, where truth stands second to attempts to genocide the Jews? Where was that lovingly made exhibit about the Sbarro bombing, again?
What I do not like is the approaching doom. I do not like attempts to obfuscate it; I do not like attempts to hasten it. Jews are the canary in the mine, Osaid.
With all of the above, I do respect you for denouncing terrorism, for speaking your mind, for your ability to think rationally and for your bravery in exposing yourself while doing so.
Not to mention your chosen profession, which is admirable in the extreme.
Which reminds me... Israeli hospitals are treating a wounded Hizballah terrorist right now. Can you see a Palestinian hospital treating an Israeli soldier? Treating as in trying to heal, not the other potential use of various surgical implements.
Why did the Americans elect George W Bush? That is the real question.
Raccoon :
/Israel is an ethinic Jewish homeland, and it is on this basis that we have returned home.../
What basis again Raccoon ? ???
Thanks for your comments Raccoon. :)
Jaye :
Hello and welcome to my blog. :)
Why did the Palestinians elect Hamas :
More than one major reason I believe,Jaye. I believe many paletinians are sick of this 'peace process' between us and the israeli government. We have achieved very little and everyone reached the 'conclusion' that we cannot get what we want through negotiations with Israel, at lest in this very shameful way. Many palestinians lost their trust in the Fatah leadership due to many reasons, including massive corruption, unclear vision, and very unprofessional and corrupt way of handling the situations. Fatah leadership was seen incapable of doing anything, they had serious mistakes that they are now admitting.
People choose Hamas because it promied them that things will be better, some prisoners will be released, the whole negotiation strategy will differ, and 'resistance' will be the choice if negotiations failed. Inspite of the American support to Fatah , it failed.
There are many articles and explanations for Hamas's victory. This 'civtory' is NOT related to Hamas's 'promises' s much as it is an escape from the horrible conditions under Fatah's 'government'.
I believe that 'fatah' is still strong enough, and that the next elections will NOT be as Hamas wants.
I am not a political analysts, I am giving you my peronal reflections as a Palestinian who is living the event and trying to view things the way THEY ARE.
Hope this helped.
I am inviting Tsedek to tell us what her reflections and ideas are ( concerning this issue )..
Raccoon : what do you think ?
Raccoon and Tsedek and all
Plz check this link :
just look how the Israeli army is behaving.. This act warrents an investigation, dont u think so ? This is a crime...
check the video .. http://content.mishtara.org/bilin-11-8-06.wmv
and the post by psychedelia at his Blog :
http://liketakingcrazypills.blogspot.com/
~~~Osaid, re. yr: "I am inviting Tsedek to tell us what her reflections and ideas are.."
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/CF148743-EFB9-462D-BE67-CAB8366CEFD3.htm
~~~
I tend to believe this article sorta explain what I believe is the reason for Hamas' victory - NOT because I know better than you of course (how could I, not living in the PA?) but these explanations follow my natural instincts as a human being...:
~~~~The Palestinian people, they say, have certain priorities, first among them personal security and survival.
...
"A family with 10 children living under the poverty line is not going to think first about relations of the new parliament with Israel or the US or the EU. He is going to think about how he can feed those children," said Nabulsi.~~~~
Tse.
Osaid, one doesn't mess with the military. That's one rule. All active institutionalized organizations in Israel are off-limits if you wanna complain, demonstrate or just show your grieve.
Soldiers, as policemen, have their instructions, and those overstepping the framework within which the military (or police) are working are treated with (sometimes exagerated) power.
One single not very important example is how I once complained to a police officer when I crossed a redlight and complained why I had to be the only one being stopped for that while more people were crossing while the lights were red.
The man almost jumped at me with handcuffs, ready to take me to the police-office and warning me of such if I didn't shut up. ABSOLUTELY intimidating. But, that's the way things are.
Demonstrations are very spectacular this way (but you see people get hurt) but no use. If you want any influence you'd hold these demonstrations in front of ministry's offices. In front of the people who make the decisions, not in front of people carrying out instructions.
Tse.
I'm American. I've tried, in my mind, to think about how would feel if somebody came to this country and kicked me off of land that my ancestors and I have lived on for 100+ years. I would be livid. It's on the Israeli's to admit what they did was wrong and allow the Palestinians land of their own, for their own country called Palestine. As an American I understand that our President only concerns himself with Israel because he wants a democratic ally in the mideast but what he fails to grasp is that Arab's could be allied with us if we tried to understand why they feel the way they do and that they have a right to live their lives however they see fit and the way they see fit is entirely different from what we see fit. We are different and we should embrace our differences instead of trying to make other people live life the way we think it should be lived. God bless and peace be with EVERYONE.
what is your opinion about united state which can't solve the problem between palestine and israel? and in your opinion what we have to do to solve this problem?
apa yang akan anda lakukan jika negara anda mengalami perpecahan seperti palestina?
apa dampak positif dan negatif bila konflik palestina vs israel dimenangkan oleh palestina?
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